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01 June 2012 @ 10:54 pm
How to redeem your Loki in one easy step!  
What if… What if the reason he went around trying to conquer earth and telling humans they want to be ruled and all those shenanigans was because he was trying to convince someone that he wanted to take over the earth?

What if that someone was the Chitauri and he was trying to convince them that Midgard was worth taking over, because he didn’t want them trying to take over Asgard?

What if he was deliberately taking the party to the humans because otherwise some evil bionic aliens might have figured out that crashing the Asgardians’ party might be good fun? What if that’s what they really want to do and he just had to stall for time, and he had to make a choice between wasting a few human lives and letting them lead a surprise attack on the realm eternal?

What if everything he pulled in Avengers was the grand act of a trickster—not out of mischief, but out of desperate loyalty to his home, even though that home was a lie?

…I don’t know how much water that holds, but I woke up from a nap with it in my head and wanted to get it out. I also posted this on tumblr but I don't have a lot of followers over there interested in Loki discussion. Ehehe.
sinemoras09sinemoras09 on June 1st, 2012 09:25 pm (UTC)
Oooh, that'd be an interesting What If. It did bother me, Loki wanting to take over Earth, because compared to all the realms and all the things he and Thor have seen, Earth is just this puny little planet on the far reaches of space, it's like wanting to conquer an abandoned parking lot (well, not abandoned, but you get my drift). I mean, yeah, the guy went through hell and back and the Tesseract probably warped his mind, and it would definitely get Thor's attention, but still. Earth? Really?

Plus, how he went about it was kind of....hmm, different. Like, Loki is SMART. Why use an army when he can wreak quiet havoc among earth's populace? Manipulate world leaders to nuke each other. Let loose a few isolated pockets of super viruses. Toy with the earthlings? IDK. The whole revenge thing doesn't really hold water when there are so many more elegant ways to go about doing it although his mind is probably warped and he's probably more than a little bit unstable, after having fallen through space and all.... I mean, obviously he probably wanted Thor to KNOW he was messing with him, but he could just as easily get himself elected to some important public position, and laugh at Thor and his friends when they start accusing him of being a malevolent upstart. (And I think Loki would enjoy that, manipulating himself into power, and then screwing over the populace afterwards XD). So the idea that he did all those things to re-direct the Chituari's attention really is interesting to me :)

tl;dr, I have nothing else to say/add except that if that were a fic, I'd be all over it XD lol ♥
Mizramizra on June 1st, 2012 10:30 pm (UTC)
And I think Loki would enjoy that, manipulating himself into power, and then screwing over the populace afterwards.

Mizramizra on June 1st, 2012 10:30 pm (UTC)
I like that idea and I'd like to add this:

I think Loki, while in the black hole or whatever the crap it was at the end of Thor, he was found by the Chitauri. And, using his fabulous charisma, he convinced them not to hurt him, and in exchange he would help them. (Similar to with the Frost Giants). Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I felt like the CHitauri were parasitic aliens, looking for a new planet. Loki figured this out, knew of the Tesseract (which I don't understand that one yet), and did a trade. "My freedom from the farthest reaches of space, and I'll start a little war for you, give you the Tesseract, and we'll be cool."
Not sure if this is it, but I like the discussion. I don't think Loki really wanted to take over Earth. Not at first anyway. But when he figured he could enslave the humans - or start the party, then give it to the Chitauri. Hurts his brother, gets a little lovin' from the humans, and then sneaks off-world somewhere else. Seems like his M.O.
classicist lass: Avengers: Loki Suitclassics_lover on June 1st, 2012 10:33 pm (UTC)
he convinced them not to hurt him, and in exchange he would help them. (Similar to with the Frost Giants).

THIS. Loki doesn't do alliances of the straightforward variety. And I bet he figured that Thor's pet Midgardians would either crumble under the attack or else be able to deal with the Chitauri for him.
Mizramizra on June 1st, 2012 11:50 pm (UTC)
As much as I've seen of him, and been reading of him, Loki has backup plans for his backup plans. Strangely, like Odin is professed to be, he always has a reason for doing something. It's never straight-forward, like you said.
sinemoras09sinemoras09 on June 2nd, 2012 08:21 am (UTC)
I think Loki, while in the black hole or whatever the crap it was at the end of Thor, he was found by the Chitauri. And, using his fabulous charisma, he convinced them not to hurt him, and in exchange he would help them. (Similar to with the Frost Giants).

I LOVE this idea \o/

Nothing useful to add but yeah. lol ♥
I_llbedammnedi_llbedammned on June 4th, 2012 07:13 pm (UTC)
I could totally see him using his charisma to convince the Chitauri not to hurt him and making a bargain with them. I don't think he intended to be loyal to them til the end at all, for once they have conquered where would that leave him?
Mizramizra on June 4th, 2012 07:50 pm (UTC)
Exactly. His character comes off as having multiple escape routes, alternative backup plans, the whole enchilada.
classicist lass: Avengers: wee!Lokiclassics_lover on June 1st, 2012 10:31 pm (UTC)
YES. It seemed to me his plan to attack/take over Earth was a case of Distract the Chitauri, offering them Midgard as a prize of little (in Loki's opinion) value, and turn them away from the greater prize of Asgard.

And the whole "You were born to kneel" thing didn't ring true to Thor era "I never wanted to be King, only your equal." Loki *clearly* had an agenda that was all his own, and was trying to make it look believable/plausible to Thor and the Avengers. But not me.

Interesting thought, thanks for sharing :-)
Opallene/Opallena: loki friendship is futilelelenmargyle on June 2nd, 2012 05:49 am (UTC)
Oh yes, I think it's plain that Loki wants and cares (y'know...in the "I want it" sense) for Asgard quite a bit. If I'm not wrong, didn't he stab his own biological father in Thor in order to contribute to securing his rule over Asgard? (If that action didn't make it clear, he basically said as much earlier -- That he wanted to be sure to look good in the eyes of the Asgardians.) He obviously resents his true parentage and hopes to secure Asgard as his own.

I'm pretty sure Loki was attacking Earth on the terms of a bargain with the Chitauri. But it seemed to me that they'd already had their sights set on Earth at the beginning of the movie. It's possible that Loki had staked out Earth and contributed to the case for its desirability before Avengers. He does maintain influence over Selvig for some time, as we know from the post-credits Thor clip and from the official "Fury's Big Week" tie-in comic.

I don't think Loki wanted Earth at all per se, but he enjoyed using it as proving grounds for his reign. Self-esteem and self-righteousness +40, or something. Sanity -80. Whoa. Good luck back in Asgard -- Can't fool them now. Maybe he has yet another trick up his sleeve??

Yay discussion! I need Loki discussion in my life. :)
I_llbedammned: lifei_llbedammned on June 4th, 2012 07:04 pm (UTC)
It'd be interesting to spin it that he still cared for Asgard more than he let on. I doubt that was his whole motivation mind you. He carries a grudge against Odin and a lot of the society that lied to him his entire life like nobody's business. But even beyond the hate and the anger he felt then I think he does have a level of care towards his brother and perhaps that extends to the realm they grew up in. I don't think it is purely a trick on his part, there is the element of rage I think, though I can see him spinning it as a trick when he is later interrogated and questioned by people.
classicist lassclassics_lover on June 10th, 2012 11:30 pm (UTC)
Unrelated, but I love your icon.